Talk about a digital camera to be produced in 2010 as being "soon" is naive. In the digital era 18 months is a lifetime. The more I look at my 9 the more it seems a bit "boxy" by today's standards. It's still an ergonomic gem. As for a future "flagship", much will depend on the sales of the A900. Notice I didn't say acceptance by pros. Although that is a desireable market, I believe Sony's target is the advanced amateur looking for a cost-benefit ratio to upgrade while still using legacy equipment. This develops word-of-mouth (or even viral) sales of the whole range of DSLRs. I doubt established pros are going to dump tens of thousands of dollars invested in Canikon glass for a marginal improvement over what they are presently getting. That said, should Sony make a breakthrough (say the backlit sensor provides dramatic improvement in IQ) then all bets are off. We're all anticipating the A900 and the quality images we hope to produce with it. To speculate on the next big thing takes us away from our primary goal - making beautiful images.

Thanks for all the nice articles, Carl and the great web site!

Speaking of our primary goal of making beautiful images, I'm head down to Bryce Canyon today, with my Maxxum 9, with 70-200mm SSM G. Hopefully I capture a few nice ones while I'm there.

In case you haven't already read the story about our Maxxum 9 upgrade adventure you can read about it here: http://www.dyxum.com/columns/other/maxxum9/index.asp

Kelly

I think that a900 will offer a good quality and performance and maybe this yes is a Maxxum 9 evolution, but with some change in design and style...

Good article...

Nostalgia is nice sometimes. But it's still nostalgia.

I can appreciate the artistry of a classic car. There are a couple I even lust after if only I could afford them. But I'd not want to drive one coast to coast. Some would, probably, those folks would admit it's about the experience, not getting somewhere. Ford Motors has been marketing to nostalgia. There are any number of cars that are faster, better handling, less cramped and more fuel efficient than a current Ford Mustang. They just don't look "like" a Mustang and don't sound like a V8.

I'd not trade Quick Navi for any number of knobs, no matter how slick and nifty they feel mechanically. . . . or how boxy the box on which they are mounted looks.

Who says you have to lose quick nav?
I think removing the 2nd dial was a mistake, and one sony have repeated through the new line. Instead we get that empty top plate space..just doing nothing.

And before I get a comeback on this one, quick nav and all, well if you want to do flash exp compensation..hmmmm, which is faster? Change for the sake of it, is not always good.

Geeze well don't make me jealous or anything :-D

I hope maybe you could share some of those shots with us if you get any in digital form eventually.

Have fun

"Talk about a digital camera to be produced in 2010 as being "soon" is naive"

I think you misunderstood me, and and 18 months isn't a lifetime. I've seen several manufactures take much longer than that to come out with a new camera in any level. But that isn't what I'm proposing at all so this argument is beside the point.

Since the flagship will be the first out (likely sept) then it would be silly for Sony to make a higher level camera than the flagship at/near the same time, wouldn't it? That, is my point.

I hope you do, and that if you do, you would share with us :)

Carl

Maybe I am misunderstanding your reply?

Carl

So how can you have an objective opinion of it?

Quick Navi is leaps ahead of a second dial, sorry bud!

Flash exp comp. is just as fast. Once you get used to Quick Navi, it only gets quicker. I've made adjustments without looking direct, using periferal vision. It blazes.

Carl

Carl..the advantages of the dial system are, that you can see what your camera is set to, even off.
You are right, maybe I cannot comment, but sony seemed determined to go to single dial, and in doing so you lost not only the exp comp dial..(if that bothers you), but the drive control dial under the main PASM dial from the 7 series. There is no way that can be faster to change with a button. And again, the other flaw in this, is all the other A series cameras are lacking this 2nd dial, and have the main one over to the left (doesnt make sense, with no LCD) I was playing with an A200 yesterday, its nice, but its 2nd best handling wise to the A100 and 5d. All based on change for the sake of it.

Maybe if I get a handle of the A700, I may change my mind..but no doubts that the single dial isnt ideal IMO. The A200 is still cheap, and worth a look, its fairly speedy..its just a shame sony dumped the advances they have, just to make models look sony ish.

But you can see what your settings are as soon as you push the FN button tho Barry (A700 is faster), and in some cases they are always displayed, just like the dial. Exp. compensation is shown always, and flash comp. is shown right when you push the FN button below Exp. comp.

I might agree when it comes to the A200, but not with the A700 its a bit different that way.

C

This is not about Nostalgia! It's about full frame, 100% viewfinder coverage, user changeable focus screens, 1/12000 sec max shutter speed, 100% metal weather sealed pro construction! It's not about knobs vs. buttons, or film vs digital. What's wrong with the hope of a Maxxum 9-like digital successor? BTW 67 vs 2008 mustang is just a bad analogy! The Maxxum 9 is in no way a 67 Mustang! Or any Ford for that matter, old or new :-) And that is coming from someone that drives one.

Sory Eric, it was not my intention to make anyone jealous. I was just excited about going to Bryce with my Maxxum 9 and my Maxxum 7D. And thanks, it was a lot of fun!

I suppose it was more of an expensive scouting expedition that anything else. I mean, Bryce is so fantastic, you just can't do it justice in 4-5 hrs. It was about a 4 hr drive in my FORD from SLC -- 550miles round trip and about 1 1/2 tanks of gas. Gas prices were definitely not Costco prices down there, ranging from about $4.19 to $4.30 per gallon for regular. The Ruby's Inn, or I guess it's now the City of Ruby's Inn, has really grown since I was last there some 20 years ago. Entrance fee to the Park is $25 per vehicle or $80 for a year pass to all National Parks. I stopped in the visitors center and asked the ranger about the lighting conditions, which was a mistake -- he was way wrong. What I learned is afternoon, evening sun light is not the best time. The canyon rim faces mainly east, so the early morning sunrise is the time to be there. Midday sun, though harsh, has some advantages shining down on the "Hoodoos" as shadows can be less of a problem. I would guess taking a helicopter excursion at sunrise and shooting from the east might be best, but Bryce Point, and Sunrise and Sunset points probably would also bag some nice keepers. From a plane or helicopter, or out in the canyon, the 70-200mm G would probably be idea. From the canyon rim, the 24-105mm range is nice along with the 70-200. I used mostly my 17-35mm D and 28-75D on my 7D and the 24-105D on the 9, with only a few shots take with the 70-200mm. I can't wait for full frame, APS-C -- 1x5 is less than ideal (JMO) for landscape. Nothing wrong with the 7D viewfinder, but you unless you've used the Maxxum 9, you cannot even imagine what a huge difference that 100% finder makes when framing Bryce Canyon -- just gorgeous!
That said, lugging the Maxxum 9, with 70-200mmG and other gear over any distance is no fun. The 7D with the lenses mentioned previously or a couple primes, and 100-300mm APO D is much more practical. And you really need a good tripod, especially with Velvia 50 and no antishake! Unless you want to change film mid roll (no problem with the 9) you can't change ISOs on the fly like with digital. My non-carbon fiber tripod and all the other gear was just too heavy. I'll try to get a few of the 7D photos up soon, and of course with Velvia 50, it will take a little longer.
All-in-all it was a productive, though short and a little expensive jog down there. And I was especially happy that my FORD actually made it there and back. I was a little worried about being found on road -- well you know -- and wishing that I had driven my Toyota instead. I had, however, total confidence in my Maxxum 9. It is built "Maxxum Tough" and I know it will keep on shooting for years to come :-) !
Kelly

Carl,

Thanks for such a great article. As a collector of Minolta cameras and lenses, it is my hopes that Sony will continue a legacy into the next generation of great photographers. Anyone remember the old slogan “ONLY FROM THE MIND OF MINOLTA” I seriously believe the MIND is behind Sony and they will revolutionize the digital camera in the near future. As the A-9 may be the Flagship of today, what does the largest manufacturer of electronics in the world hold in store for tomorrow? Much more, so much more!
AJ

Carl,

What constitutes "heritage"? Sony has already taken over Minolta factories and engineers. The A-mount is here to stay. The Minolta flash contact still exists. The propensity for Minolta to define buttons for functions rather than imbed pages in pages to get at functions is all through the Sony line. Innovation - a Minolta trademark - is being shown by each iteration of the Alpha. Yes, I'd like A900 to be built like a tank the way the Maxxum 9 was but with modern materials that may not be necessary. Weather seals in the A900 are mandatory if it's to be considered a pro camera but none of the Sony lenses are sealed so what good will it do in the rain? For sure a 100% viewfinder would be desirable but that's not essential Minolta DNA. I've owned or still own every AF Minolta SLR (including the Vectis line) because each new product appealed to me on a "gut" level as well as as a pragmatic photographer. I'll know the first minute I get my mitts on an A900 if underneath it's a Minolta.

Well, I almost cried when I say that the A700 has lost the second dial, but I bought the A700 anyway.

Now, what was that stupid second dial for? Quicknav 10, Second Dial about 3.
Quicknav is so much faster. And how useful is that Custom buttom? I o use the custom button for Flash Comp, although it would have been better if they had used the second wheel with the Exposure Comp button for Flash Comp. Shame we can't get Sony to fix this minor firmware issue :(

Second dial is really obsolete in comparison in some respects. Something about having more metal on a camera though that really gives you a feeling of confidence.

Be interesting to see if they include what you are looking for in the next model.

Carl

Together?

I think it's possible, without a doubt.

Carl

Carl,

We eagerly await the answer to your question, "Minolta Maxxum 9: Will Sony keep its philosophy alive?"
Photos of the two cameras side-by-side would be nice, front, top, back views etc. Seems to me from reading previews, that is has!

Kelly

In a way, the A900 is almost a morphed A700 and Maxxum 9 with even newer upgrades on it. Kinda reminds me of that. Not spec for spec of course but in use and feel. Working on the final review, putting more work into that than I did the preview. Might take a bit however :)

C

Thanks Carl,

Your description "morphed A700 and Maxxum 9" is what I was thinking. The A900 looks closer in size to the A700. Haven't compaired specs. In your side-by-side photo of the 9 and A700, the 9 is taller. The A700 looks close to the same size as my 7D.
I'm looking forward to your to your final review!

Kelly

Well this peaked my curiosity, so I looked up the publish dimensions, in inches, for the A900, Max 9, A700, and the 7D -- W x H x D:

A900: 6.0 x 4.6 x 3.2
Max9: 6.1 x 4.4 x 3.0 (specs were in mm 155 x 111.0 x 3.0 -- I converted)
A700: 5.6 x 4.3 x 3.3
7D: 5.9 x 4.2 x 3.1

Kelly

I may sound pragmatic but life taught me that money rule and commercial decisions will determine the future of any technical commercial development. Let's have a look at what Sony did since they took over Minolta from a commercial perspective:
1.A100 - great start, affordable price, with a great foreseeable future, enough to keep people guessing and hoping – I'd say a minimum Sony investment mostly based on Minolta heritage. It was well received.
2.A700 – yes, we are serious about it, here is the proof – more investment, more research (CMOS sensor, etc) - one of main issues you heard about at the time was no live view. Some of us couldn't care less but what about the market? Well obviously it was a commercial issue. So, what to do about it? Solution ...
3.A200, A300, A350 – Big surprise! Everybody was waiting for the flagship and what Sony did? They released not one but 3 new cameras in response to market feedback over A100 and A700. I think this was a great commercial decision. I had big trouble choosing the A700 against A350, comming from a Sony DSC-F828 which has, in my opinion, a briliant imlementation of live view.
4.A900 – seems to be addressing feedback for A700 with more development into a new higher resolution CMOS sensor announced earlier, addressing live view, improved DRO, etc
5.A700 – V4 firmware upgrade release so soon after the release of A900 addressing A700 feedback based on A900 improvements.
So, what next? Will it be an A900 top tier camera? I think Sony will wait and watch the A900 sales while probably developing an A250, A400 or A750, etc. Anything closer to A900 (right belowor or above) will just compromise A900 sales. In this age I don't think the size of the camera is a criteria. Commercially, I don't think an A900 top tier make sense. An improved one, yes I'm sure it will come a day we'll see one that will replace the A900. There is still plenty of Minolta heritage laying underneath ...
-----
Calin
Time has no meaning, only life has.

is exactly what Sony wanted to accomplish to this point. A 5 DSLR foundation of which to grow on.

So to me, it is all growth and expansion of the system from here on out. I think we will see at least two brand new models added to Alpha quite possibly within the next year. The A200/300/350 to be updated possibly next year as well by Christmas, but who knows for sure. That is just a guess.

Success and execution are the only real variables to this equation imo.

I am now very interested to see what Cybershot does at Photokina. Cybershot does not directly affect Alpha of course, but the two heads working the market together are vital. I think Sony will continue to show strength in both markets.

Anyone else?

Carl

Here is another view. Assuming that any future new camera will be preceded by the release of a new sensor, which camera is most likely to follow?
The table below shows some basic calculations for a range of cameras. The last row shows the total number of pixels per mm² for each sensor.
Camera ___________ A200 ______ A350 ______ A700 ______ A900
Sensor Size (mm²) __ 372.88 ____ 368.95 _____ 366.6 ______ 861.6
Total Pixels (millions) _ 10.8 ______ 14.9 _______ 13.05 ______ 25.7
Pixels / mm² _______ 28964 _____ 40384 _____ 35597 _____ 29828
You can easily see that A900 sensor has almost the same number of pixels / mm² as A200. Technologically, the most advanced seems to be the A350 sensor. Even the A700 sensor has a much higher density that A900 sensor. So, technologically, which is the more likely sensor to be improved? Well, looks like the A900 sensor. An evolved A900 type sensor, at a density similar to the A700 sensor will offer 30.7 million pixels and similar to the A350 sensor around 34.8 million pixels (watch your disk space). Looks like the real battle will be to produce a CMOS APS-C size sensor to offer above 14.9 million pixels for the next generation of A700 (maybe A750 at 16 million pixels).
What do you think?
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Calin
Time has no meaning, only life has.

Calin,

That's very interesting data. Of course there are other considerations to sensor development than just pixel count, like noise, file size, and of course manufacturing costs. Nikon seems to be having no problem selling a 12 mega pixel full frame D3 and D700 because the quality of photos from these cameras are superb. I do have some reservations about the file size from a 24 mpx camera because of the computer resources required to support them. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a full frame 12 mega pixel A750, but I admit that you may be right about your assessment of 16 mega pixel A750. Of course it could be a 16 mega pixel full frame -- or would that be reserved for the A800?

Kelly

That is exactly what, I think, the debate is about. Without going into details of CCD and CMOS technology it is known that CMOS require additional circuits on the sensor apart from the actual light detectors while CCD doesn't. That explains why the higher density A350 sensor is CCD. We should also expect better noise management from a full frame sensor such as the A900 having a lower circuit density compared to the A700 sensor. Hence, the Nikon 12 mega full frame sensor, should, in theory, allow better noise management technologically speaking. In conclusion, you may be right about a possible full frame sensor development for a future A750 or A800. It will make more sense because it will allow not only a higher resolution without costly technology advancement but also a better noise management (if it only goes up to 16-18 mega). Problem is, users who bought a few DT lens will not be happy with the change. You can use them with A900 but, obviously, making use of only half the sensor.
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Calin
Time has no meaning, only life has.

Carl, This is my first ever comment and I totally agree with everything you have said, or am I in cookoo land ?. I think not! Not so many years ago Sony were going nowhere, except downhill, with their electronics business. Their recovery over the f0llowing years has been nothing but miraculous and I just don't see them at this stage throwing anything away in any department of business particularly in photography when they went to all the trouble of taking over Konica/Minolta lock stock and barrel. Why do that if you did not intend to use the knowledge and skill that the work force had to offer, surely not just to stop someone else getting it, no! they have already used quite a lot of it and the world has moved on to expect more. Like all their other products I think that Sony will want to produce the best they can, so even although the goal posts for the 'Flagship' may have been rapidly moved we can look forward to the further developement of the Minolta philosophy and inheritance.

Misty

Fun article Carl. Thanks!
It grabbed my eye because just the other day I picked up a 9. And the really cool part is that here in Japan it wasn't called a Maxxum (sounds like coffee) or Dynax (sounds like some sort of detergent) but naturally, Alpha. So my camera is the Alpha 9, complete with the Alpha logo on the front!

Anyway, I'm in the process of running my first role of film thru it and can't wait to see the results. It just feels so solid in the hand! Owning this camera makes the prospect of owning an A900 even more attractive, but I'm holding out with my A700 until Sony gives us something more oriented toward action photography.