It will be interesting to hear of your A65 final thoughts, as the A77 review reminds me of the A550/500 pair. I think that was the time that the 'better' cam did not win you over compared to the lower-spec (higher value) sibling.

Sony has introduced so many technological changes in the past year that it's really hard to keep my head from spinning, and I feel like an 'old dog' at 54 with so many new ways to do things (and new things to do!). Alpha has definitely been shaped to fit Sony's electronic philosophy; each of us can decide how that fits our individual styles. We will see where the next efforts will lead as they develop their SLT, NEX and other lines - if rumors prove true, fullframe SLT sounds like it's next up. For myself, I'm a bit overwhelmed by it all... but that's just me.

please delete one for me Carl - thanks

is going up with better IQ, so all these new goodies are included and IQ refined as much as possible.

Thanks Carl

You and the AMW members have given me alot to digest.

Your editorial position is clearly stated without obscuring the information. Another great review.

Isn’t all about decisions and where they lead? The upside of sifting through of this discussion is that it has helped me focus on what kinds of images I’m most interested in and reminding myself (again) that it’s about the image.

Pax mentus

Rich

I call it like I've experienced it.

Carl

... regarding your one statement "Bottom line, I just think the A77 feels unfinished." I've been of the opinion that they hold back a bit until they release their flagship products - For example, the A900 appeared to be the completed version of the A700 (plus full frame). So, I expect the A99 will be the completed version of the A77, too. Since I'm currently happy with my cameras at hand, I don't feel the bug to get a new A77. However, if/when they release the A99, I'll probably get that.

I've been waiting for this review and after reading all of the other reviews online have decided to make the great leap back from my A700 and go with the A580. I waited for the A77 for over a year and was ecstatic when I heard about the 24MP sensor. I guess the old saying about don't count your chickens before they hatch really rings true here. I'm just an amateur photographer but really wanted a REAL camera when it came to IQ, but Sony appeared to forget the ball while they were running for the touchdown. The A77 should have been a major step forward, but Sony forgot to follow through on what the photographer wanted and came out with a bunch of smoke and translucent mirrors.

I guess I should have listened to a friend of mine years ago and switched to Canon, then I wouldn't feel so let down after my long wait. Now I'll have to take a step backward and buy the A580 and feel that I'll be left out in the cold as far as Sony is concerned. Don't get me wrong as I think the A580 is a "good" camera, but not a great camera and am not sure it will hold up to the amount of shots that I take. The great plus for it is that it an excellent sensor tucked inside. Sony seem like they are more interested in gadgetry than getting serious about photography. Have had two friends get into photography and I recommend they buy Canon.
Left hold the bag full of A mount lenses.
Thanks again Carl for all of the work on putting this review together. Very much appreciated.
WanaM3

I think there are a lot of points being missed in other articles on the A77. Most of the best points raised I've seen are by photographers who use the camera like it's meant to be used and thereby expose the weaknesses of the A77 in full. It does have its strong points the A77, but I can't help but think how well it would have really been had Sony not changed plans to go SLT during the middle of our 4 year wait for the successor to the A700.

Either way, the A77 needs to mature to sway users from other brands. For A-Mounters only though, its a fine camera in many respects as long as you understand what you are buying.

Carl

With the A77, in fact so much so that I was going to start the migration away... BUT.. I have thought this through a bit more and have decided to hang tight for a while ( I had moved away from Sony once and came back) and that can be costly and in many cases you gain nothing..
Here are my thoughts and they may not matter to anyone but we can feel a bit let down with the advent of the SLT design and and of course the long wait, I have been reading and reading and then reading some more until my eyes bleed and this is what I have concluded, I think that many users (long time Sony/Minolta users ) feel that their expectations where not met, I think this is part of the problem much is based on a feeling which invokes emotion and this can override logic and reasoning. Now I have been looking at many examples across the net (high iso, low iso, DR, detail and so on) and I think if we truly evaluate not only the A77 but compare it to lets say to the 7D/ 60D I see better detail in the A77 (for me detail is important, most noise can be dealt with but if you don't have detail to begin with you can't create it ) Other factors to consider are just what are the needs of the photographer, We all want a all around camera great at everything at a price that won't break the bank, and after my search I think the A77/65 delivers, after my own research and what my eyes tell me... So for now I need to stay put and concentrate on how to market myself and photography, if we truly believe that it's you and me that makes the picture then really I see a lot of these reviews as a stumbling block to our success..
Thats my 2 cents..

Kevin

PS.... If you need high ISO results then I have to say I have not seen any camera do much better than the 5N .. This is a Great tool

One other side not you may not need the 24mp.. but it really does come in handy when shooting macro...

It would have been nice to see an A700 successor with the A580's 16mp sensor and some of its additional features, including a tilting LCD--while retaining the A700's superior build and ergonomics. I think Sony wasted a great opportunity there.

Meanwhile, barring a great price deal on the A580, I think I'll just hang on to my A700 for awhile longer and see what firmware improvements will be forthcoming for the A65/A77 models. If I were to get one of the latter, I would probably shoot at medium-resolution most of the time, except for landscape and macro photos where 24mp would no doubt prove valuable. But I think DSLRs/DSLTs are like new cars--I try to avoid buying the early production models until they get most of the bugs worked out.

Andy

The concept of trickling improvements down the line as well as into new model years is done by every other SLR maker; Sony chooses not to play that way, whether from inexperience or just a different vision. Wish it weren't so, but the company is theirs to do as they choose. I suppose it didn't help that (I've heard) the A700 did not sell well, so Sony could feel that no part of it should tarnish their future vision - quite sad for those who bought and love their 700s, of whom I was neary one (twice! I missed the B-Buy selloff by a month when I bought the A200). It has felt to me that loyalty is not part of Sony's vision, but that's frustration talking; as noted above we can get emotionally tied to gear, perhaps since it is used to create emotionally powerful images? What they make now is very good, but philosophically it's a challenge to traditional users like me; how you puzzle it out may be quite different.

Hopefully Sony will succeed and keep the other camera makers thinking - but I very much hope that all the others don't fall into step, trying to make a better NEX and SLT and leaving folks like us wondering what happened.

by PopPhoto as Best of the Speed Freak of 2011
http://www.popphoto.com/

PopPhoto is a big sellout, everybody knows it. Someone has to say it.

Awards don't mean anything from them anymore.

C

I own a Konica-Minolta 5D with several lenses, nothing exceptional. I have been waiting to upgrade to a better, advanced amateur camera for quite some time, and was looking forward to the alpha 77. However, what I have gathered from your's and many other reviews is that while the alpha 77 is a remarkable camera it has a number of issues. My question is do I buy the alpha 77 or is the alpha 580 actually a better camera for photography (not really interested in video).
Due to my limited investment in the Konica/Minolta/Sony line I find myself teetering on switching to an alternate system. I would like to stay with Sony, but if I am going to spend around $1400 on a camera body it should give me the best possible images (for a camera in that class).

Paints don't make the painter.... Where is my Van Dyke brown?

I bought the A65 a few weeks ago. Having waited for a camera to replace my A100 (and the A580 almost made me do it) I thought that getting 5 years out of a DSLR body was enough, and it was time to get a replacement.

I loved the A65...sent some pics to MarcL (user on this site with a A200 & A700) to show him noise of the images at iso 1600. He said "no comparison" and sent back some A700 shots for pixel peeping to show how much better the A77 was. To tell you the truth, coming from the A100, where I hesitate shooting over 400, anything would be better anyways, but I trust his judgement (and his beercan! lens!).

I ended up returning the A65. Why? Because I loved the camera so much that I wanted one that would last longer, have dust sealing and make use of the faster FPS with more comprehensive focusing cross points, and that model is the A77, which I just purchased. The A77 also has the focus aid light, which is a necessity in low light to get to use the speed of the camera. Why let it hunt for focus? That glorious processor is sitting idle because there's no light? What a waste!

I shoot everything, not a pro, but I've been shooting a long time, Rolei, Nikor, etc. I just shoot my life and it seems to be filled with moments that pass too quickly these days, and the A77 allows me a new chance to get better shots.

I think much (if any) disappointment around the A77 is due to not realizing that there is a different demographic among photographers now. This emerging market is looking for an all-in-one, and don't care for the status quo. Just like the Ipod touch destroyed the market for the Nintendo 3DS and PSPs, as casual gaming undercut and replaced the ingrained products, this is Sony being market driver, instead of critique driven ("who asked for 24mp?") ... well we all did...the day we bought our 640K first digital camera in 1995 and dreamed of the future where we could not waste 35mm rolls of Kodachrome, but still print a poster.

I think any A700 owner whom isn't jealous of a A77 after trying one, is not a photographer, but a statistician. Even then, it is not an evolution of the A700, but a revolution, and that is hard to compare in a review. I think you did a good job btw, and wanted to see how the market decided the success of the A77/A65 sisters.

(Now with the flooded factories, it looks like Sony is going to miss the Holiday season though...)

As one who has taught and applied statistics since the late '60s and used an SLR for my own pleasure since 1976, I think folks who own A77s should go out and enjoy them and not spend their time making disrespectful comments about those of us who are content with our A700s and, for whatever reasons, are not able and/or willing to spend $1,400 on a new A77 body at this time.

Andy

:)

It's weird how peoples reactions to digital photography+the internet has really changed the atmosphere of photography in general.

I think there's a lot of insecurity that revolves around purchases. Bottom line, if you aren't secure with what you buy, maybe you should think twice about buying it. If you are, great, be happy. Just know that everybody isn't going to share your opinion and, that is ok.

Cheers,

Carl

On the other hand, you might have some influence on this site to steer people in purchasing directions. Comparing the A77 to what YOUR expectations were for a 4 year later A700 is pretty myopic.

Anyhow, I should of used the word "excited" instead of "jealous"...that's the connotation I was hoping for. I don't want to make anyone upset about an old camera like the A700. I still love my older A100 and would never part with it.

Ultimately is with the purchaser. They choose what they want to buy on their own standards, a review or otherwise does not make that decision for them either way. They make their own decision based on their own wants or needs. If a review reflects answers to the questions they have that ultimately takes them to the store or keeps them at home so be it, but they either way a buyer is going to make that decision one way or another in the future anyways. A review can help them save time on a decision but no more than that.

Fundamentally I completely disagree with every ounce that I am that my reviews steer people one way or the other in purchasing directions- they make the choice on their needs, always.

No if's ands or butt's about it.

When everyone makes you feel like a schmuck for buying an a77. I upgraded from an a700 and there are many things this camera is going to do to help me take better pictures. Not better like 'I' am going to be better but, more in focus, better exposed the first time, etc. etc.. I don't think I need a camera that can take photos in the dark with no noise, I do have a flash or, has everyone forgot about those? What happened to the days when you were lucky to be able to shoot anything above 800 iso or, a noisy high iso shot is better than no shot. A lot of the comparisons all seem to be with the a580 and not the a700. All the things they tried to do are getting blown away buy bad (compared to the 580) 'high' iso performance. Is that the only thing anyone is looking for now? Are we so spoiled that we want to throw away our tripods and flashes?

Kind of a rant I know but, like I said, hard to get excited with all of the poo-pooing.

SKB

Are we so spoiled that we want to throw away our tripods and flashes?
I want to shoot moving subjects without flashes as much as possible and because of this, I like to buy newer camera with high ISO perfomance on the level achieved for now.

Not a rant at all. You stated what I have been thinking. Seems to me that a lot of people want egg in their beer. Cameras have evolved into marvels of engineering compared to what they were just a few years ago. They have a flash built into some models and a place to attach bigger flashes. They provide in-camera algorithms for combining multiple exposures to eliminate high ISO noise. They provide resolution on APSC array that exceeds 35mm film resolution. They have built in HDR. etc, etc. What's a mother to do!?

I understand how you feel. I've owned cameras that people Poo Poo'd all the time in fact, quite many. Most of them had a name on the front of them from (pick a manufacturer) and I just chalked it up to people all having different needs.

From my standpoint -I write a review and try to think of the marketplace and where a camera stands against competition. So those doing research into a new camera may be provided some insight into things they normally wouldn't find- which helps them decide.

I liked using the A77. I think its success is going to be under heavy pressure next year when the other manufacturers come out with updates to their cameras- but for now Sony got a jump start in this category and released it well before all the others had theirs finished.

If the A77 is going to be successful, now is the time for consumers to cast their votes.

C

Most of the personal reviews that don't like the A77 are by those that wanted an evolution of the A700 SLR. This is an new SLT camera, and having the ability to adjust seeing the affect of exposure compensation in the viewfinder is liking having the DOF preview button. Instead of having to compose, shoot and look at the screen on the back is ground-breaking in it's ability to keep you focused (pun intended) on the act of photography.

Due to this fact of wanting a newer A700 by those that own one, there are requests to continue optical viewfinder and prisms. These people sublimate their disappointment in not having on into a bad A77 review. Ultimately, it's a failure in understanding who uses a SLT vs whom wants historical "correctness" via SLR.

It's exactly like a cassette tape Sony Walkman vs a new Sony mp3 player. They both do the same thing (play music) but the older one could hear the music while cueing fast forward with true analog fidelity instead of an mp3 player that samples snippets in order to fake a fast forward cue sound. Someone who loves that original, old feature might be disappointed in the newer mp3 players, and forget that the signal to noise ratio is better, or the form factor is smaller, or you can choose any song you want to listen to at any moment etc etc. See my point?

I have so many prism cameras that I don't need another one. I want something that will go to mars, not has been to the moon.

about SLR v SLT or OVF v EVF. I personally like EVF much more. It is about IQ!
I like to see high ISO IQ race, not MP race. It is really interesting, what is the influense of Sony 24MP APS-C models to the bigger picture in 2012. If other camera makers decide to fight for better position between high number MP cameras, then high ISO will be probably left outside at all. So, decision can be - buy low light camera before it is out of market. But will it be so? What about lenses for 24MP APS-C models?

why car makers, PC makers and so on can offer models with all goodies with different HP, but camera makers not, still waiting something? Why a77 with 24MP has not brother model with well developed low light 16MP sensor as on NEX-5N, both 2011 developed? But yes, letting go, enough for me :(

keep in mind that users of optical finders like them for valid reasons, suggesting they need to move on is not appropriate. We get your opinion, it has been voiced loud and clear.

Both EVF and OVF have unique advantages and always will- that is the end of the debate.

Carl

You missed my point. I'm not saying to "move on", I myself don't move on, but I add to my palette. That's why my camera collection includes a Balda, Retina IIa, Topcon, Mikroma II, and medium format 645s, and lots of other toys that are fun to play with from days past. What I'm saying is that each technology is different for different users. Want a real-time histogram? Go ELED on a A77, want one that doesn't show red grain noise in low light? Get a optical one, and turn up the lights so you can see.

I'm saying that this is a different type of camera that has different use-cases, priorities, and feature sets to support those use cases, and should be reviewed on feature set, not delta between models. Most of you are positioning the camera vs SLRs, when it should be positioned above the 55 SLT camera. Even Nikon gets this, do you think their future SLT camera's mirror will compromise high ISO vs their ingrained line? Of course it will, they all have a 1/2 or 1/3 stop less light. Do they care? No. Now add the fact that you've knocked the pixel pitch of a APS sized sensor out of the park, and the fact that it does have this kind of high ISO quality better than the A700 at the same time, and it is an amazing camera. There is no need for full frame anymore as far as I'm concerned.

thanks for clearing it up.

Carl